Greg, we talked about that you recently had an accident and if you hadn't survived it, you know where you would have been. Where does this certainty come from?
Yes, I had a severe car accident last year where another vehicle ran me off the road, sending my car racing down a hill through a thicket. It still amazes me that I didn't hit a tree, and that walked away from this without a single scratch. That wasn't the only time my life was on the line, though. Over the years, I have found myself in several highly dangerous situations where I easily could have been killed or severely injured—including other car crashes and being dangerously close to active shooting incidents. Looking back on these moments, I know my survival wasn't luck. God is sovereign, and I firmly believe I will remain in this life until the exact moment He decides my time on earth is done. Because of this, I live with peace concerning my eternal destiny. My certainty comes from a defining moment in 1996, when I dedicated my life to Jesus and accepted that His death on the cross paid the penalty for my sins, securing my eternal place with Him."
You once said: „Many feel that it is morbid to think about how short our lives are, but I actually feel it is health”. Do you often think and talk about death?
Quite frankly, I think about it every day now. I was born in 1966, and so now I am 60 years old. When I think about some of the master musicians that I have studied for many years, I have outlived so many of them – musicians like John Coltrane, Gene Ammons, Sonny Stitt, Hank Mobley, many others. By the time I reach 65, I will have outlived most of the others. Granted, there were extenuating circumstances that led to the death of many of these men. But it still makes me pause to think. And it reminds me that I don't have forever to finish the musical, spiritual and personal goals I have in this life. It also reminds me to be more intentional with my loved ones. It reminds me to not leave disputes unresolved. It challenges me to be a mentor to younger people. And that reminds me to be a little more serious about my health.
Could you share something about your conversion and new birth?
Many people talk about a defining moment that changed them and led them to accept the Lord. My testimony is a lot more complex and complicated-but I will simplify it the best I can for this interview. I have always believed in God, and always believed conceptually in Jesus; although I had a flawed understanding of who he was and the concept of salvation in general. I was raised Catholic and was an altar boy for many years. My dad made sure that we went to church every week, and my mother would talk to my siblings and I about issues of faith all the time. But there are many things that led me away from the spiritual side of my upbringing. I was deeply scarred by racial situations that were just a common part of being black in the 1970s and 80s. I was also led away by sin in American pop culture, and other things. I had a lot of pain in my life I was trying to work out and I tried to escape that pain through achievement. When I was in college, I drifted from church and lived a fairly wild life for a couple years. This led to a lot of chaos, dysfunction and depression in my life for years. But the Lord used this chaos in my life to bring me to him. Someone gave me a Bible, and for the first time in my life I started reading it. I was amazed at all I didn’t know about scripture and God, although I had considered myself to be a Christian my whole life. At this stage of my life, I started studying many books trying to find a common link between all religions, so although I considered Jesus to be the most important spiritual figure, I hesitated dedicating my life to him for a couple years. After I was married in 1996, my wife and I decided to seek God together, because we knew that he had brought us together. We started attending churches of all different denominations, seeking truth. I started getting together with a pastor in New York City, who explained some of the things I have been reading and scripture more thoroughly. Ultimately, this pastor lead me in a prayer, and I have been walking with Jesus ever since. Shortly after, my wife also dedicated her life to Christ, and it has been a wonderful journey for us experiencing God’s transforming power, both for us individually and as a couple. It has been 30 years walking with the Lord, and it has been an amazing journey.
Have your children inherited your love for jazz and your faith?
Our children both enjoy jazz alongside the other music they listen to. Although neither are completely active professional musicians at this point, they are both wonderful singers and play other instruments as well. I am thankful that they both follow Jesus in this complex era of history.
We talked a little about Coltrane. I'm not looking for answers about where he ended up after death; it's not for us to judge, but have you noticed that he never gives thanks for salvation and never mentions the name of Jesus? He thanked God for his deliverance from addictions, and he gave praise to God through music and in his psalms, but in all of this his spirituality seemed syncretic. His aspiration was a common religion; he used to say: „I think that common things will eventually unite people. If only it were possible—if only someone could say once and for all: 'Let's unite'”. What do you think of this idea?
Unity between people is a beautiful idea, and I long for this myself; particularly in light of racial divisions in America. But I am convinced that attempting to achieve this unity by blending the world’s religions is ultimately impossible. As I stated earlier, I spent years studying other religions trying to find commonality between the faiths. I even visited a Bhatia temple once, searching for this unity. I gave up on the idea, for it became clear to me that world religions cannot be merged because they are fundamentally exclusive and contradict one another on core beliefs. And most importantly, no other religion outside of Christianity deals with the problem of universal sin and reconciliation to a perfectly holy God. While it is easy to avoid thinking about this spiritual reality, it is an unavoidable truth that every person will eventually face, sometimes much sooner than expected. In John 14:6 Jesus stated, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.” But how can Jesus say this? He alone could make this claim because He offered Himself as the sole perfect sacrifice, paying the penalty on the cross for human sins. Through His death, people are made blameless before God and granted the gift of eternal life - a path to true reconciliation that cannot be found in any other belief system.
It often happens that a clear declaration of Christ leads to a loss of fans, and consequently, also income... The question arises: what is more important: music or mission? You once said that professional success is less important than faithfulness to God. Can you elaborate on that thought?
Making a good living strictly as a jazz performer is difficult for most people. Because of this, how much the public accepts and appreciates our music directly affects our ability to do what we do. But being faithful to God's directive is much more important. If anyone chooses to be a Christian in the arts world, he or she must navigate all this with wisdom, and guidance from the Holy Spirit. I am often reminded of Mark 10:29-30: where Jesus said , "Truly I say to you, there is no one who has left house or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or farms , for My sake and for the gospel's sake , but that he will receive a hundred times as much now in the present age , houses and brothers and sisters and mothers and children and farms , along with persecutions ; and in the age to come , eternal life ..." There has never been a time where I have lost something as a result of following where they proceed, as God's will, that God hasn't made it up to me in some way. God is faithful, and he notices everything we do. Lastly, we have to always remember who we are serving, and to remember the colossal sacrifice he made for us.
Have you noticed that many Blue Note jazz musicians today profess their faith in Christ, even though they don't wear suits like they did in the 1950s (and the cigarette smoke associated with jazz in the 1950s and 1960s is gone)?
Yes, I have noticed, and it inspires me. I hope that they remain faithful to their calling. They need to be kept in prayer.
Which saxophones do you play most often?
I have played Selmer saxophones for a long time now-specifically the Radio Improved model, although sometimes I will play a Cigar Cutter. These horns are almost 100 years old. They are cumbersome to play and are generally out of tune, but I like their sound quality.
How do you remember playing with drummers…. What was it like playing with Coltrane's drummers: Rashied Ali, Elvin Jones? And how was it playing with my favorite, Brian Blade?
Elvin-it was a big wall of sound and power emanating from his set every night. The songs we played were very easy, but keeping up with his energy was extremely difficult. And his beat was so strong. He played with so much creativity and raw emotion. It was one of the best musical experiences of my life, playing with Elvin, and I think God for the opportunity.
Rashied-it's much easier to see the connection between Rashied and Elvin, when you play with both of them. There is a similar core vibe that they both possessed that I haven't felt with anyone else I've played with. Perhaps this comes from their common experience of playing with Trane, or it was something that they both possessed that Trane was attracted to. It's hard really to know. I got to hang with Rashied a lot more, then with Alvin, and so I heard more stories from Rashied. We had a nice friendship, and I miss him.
Brian Blade-I've known him since he was 18, and he always was special. I haven't played with him in a long time, but I hope we get to do something again one of these days. Great guy, and great musician.
You played for a while at the Time Square Church founded by David Wilkerson. What was your relationship with him? What kind of influence did he have on you? What do you value about him?
My wife and I attended Times Square Church for 10 years, and I worked there for four years. We started going there shortly after I gave my life to Jesus, and since we didn't have anyone discipling us; we considered David Wilkerson's messages to be crucial in our development as young christians. He was uncompromising and valued holiness at a level that many pastors lack. I am thankful for his influence in that era of my life. By the time I started working at the church, he had retired, and unfortunately, was not as accessible as he had been at one time; so although I wish I would've had a stronger relationship with him, it was impossible at this point.
Do you think you have any spiritual influence on the non-religious musicians you've played with?
I am not really equipped to answer this question, but I certainly hope I have. That is at the core of what I do.
What spiritual influence can jazz music have on listeners, since it's primarily instrumental?
Obviously, it is easier if you have a singer, or rapper/poet/etc. And I hope to include these in my music at some point if the Lord permits. But for now, the song titles have to do. My aim is to plant seeds for my listeners to think about. The Holy Spirit will do the rest.
At the concert in Gdańsk, we heard Curtis Mayfield's song "People Get Ready." I read that he himself was only fascinated by gospel culture and was more focused on social issues than religious. Do you know anything about Curtis's Christianity?
I can't speak for Curtis Mayfield, as I don't know much about him unfortunately. But I do enjoy his music that I have heard.
List a few exceptional pieces, concerts, or albums that are particularly close to you and that you have worked on.
I get inspired by certain Christian rappers – The Ambassador, Trip Lee, J Monty, Mouthpi3ce, others. These artists are very solid in their faith, and hold their art on a high-level. They are just like Christian jazz musicians. I have had the blessing of playing in a lot of diverse styles, inside and outside of Jazz. I have enjoyed playing in Bill Frisell's bands, with Andrew Hill, with Dave Douglas, Tom harrell, Regina Carter, and so many others. If I had to only pick three of my favorite records I've played on, I would say, History Mystery by Bill Frisell, Song For Anyone by Chris Potter, and Dusk by Andrew Hill; but I have been on many other projects I considered to be special. If I had to pick one of my own, I would say, probably "The Hidden Light".
I really like "The Hidden Light" – an emotional album. I heard you used to play in rock and punk rock bands. Would you go back to playing in such bands? Or maybe you could see yourself in progressive rock?
I like all sorts of music, so I am open to wherever the Lord leads me. Although I prefer jazz, I am not a jazz purist.
Has any film, music, or book recently captivated you? What two books would you take with you to a desert island?
I love Eric Metaxas's book on Dietrich Bon Hoffer (although I don't agree politically with many of Eric's views). I also like Robin DG Kelly's Book on Thelonious Monk. I am assuming that I can take the Bible along with those two books. But if the Bible is one of those two books, then I think I would have to go with the Monk book. I am also a big fan of The Chosen-I don't agree with every artistic decision they have made… particularly in season four. But they never fail to inspire me. Every episode is like a mini sermon. Although it is not a word for word paraphrase of the Bible, I really appreciate what they are trying to do. Some episodes are especially powerful.
What are your dreams: spiritual, familial, or professional?
Spiritual-to grow in joy, holiness, generosity and thankfulness.
Familial-to grow as a husband, and as a role model to my adult kids. When I go to be with the Lord, I want them to be able to look back and see me as a person who wasn't pretending, but did live wholeheartedly for the Lord. When we look to the genealogies in scripture, we see how each generation affects the next; either for good or for bad. I would like to be a generation that affects my descendants for good.
Professional-I have some specific artistic goals that I am pursuing for the clarinet and for music composition. Also, in general I would like it if my music and life will inspire people to pursue Jesus Christ. As many people as possible.
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